the fact that monster hunter wilds is a pile of technical garbage yet can still become a record seller is depressing.

@quad As with any other AAA-Game these days. Though tbh monster hunter Games on PC were always like this. But even my brother reported it literally crashing lol.

@stefan Wilds is awful. Sure World was demanding for its time and was far from perfect. But Wilds has such god awful graphics performance while not even looking particularly great. I know all AAA games tend to suck at this today, but wilds is yet another step below as far as I can tell. The game is seemingly designed with the assumption that one will use frame gen to go from 30 to 60fps. It's actually bottom tier

@stefan You should see how bad it looks for people who are trying to hit 30fps (with constant drops into the ~15fps range) on a Steam Deck. It's straight up unplayable pixel soup

@quad I have tried the same with my a750. Yeah its rough even getting 30. There sure is a reason they *recommend* frame-gen in their recommended settings. Not even funny anymore.

Other than that 144p-Render-Res Gang unite.

@quad You know its hot garbage when DigitalFoundry titles the video like this:

"Monster Hunter Wilds PC - Profound Perf Problems Must Be Addressed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yhacyXcizA

@stefan the only other game i can remember running this awfully is black myth wukong.

But at least black myth wukong looks pretty amazing to make up for it. Wilds doesn't look that much better than worlds imo.

@quad pretty sure that one runs better

@stefan Yeah apparently it has basic issues like causing a perf drop every time you pan the camera.

I personally don't play Wilds and no way in hell do they deserve my money if they release a game like this. (If I buy it, it'll be after they've fixed it and it's on sale for like $15)

However my colleagues at work are Monster Hunter fans, one of them trying to run it on a GTX 1070 and I can't remember what the other had, but I think it was a 2000-series.

Not the fanciest GPUs, but both of them need to use minimum settings, upscaling AND frame gen, and still can't hit 60fps most of the time. It's depressing.

Unfortunately this is going to continue as long as consumers keep giving money to these awful pieces of software.

@stefan Black Myth Wukong performance is hard to measure, because upscaling in that game is mandatory (ew). This is why Nvidia tends to always beat AMD in that game for instance, because DLSS is better than FSR, even if the actual GPU's performance isn't. The most you can do is set upscaling to 100% to do native AA.

Upscaling being mandatory means that Black Myth Wukong's performance is pretty bad for comparing actual GPU power because you can't make the game render native frames (maybe with mods or something, i dunno).

@stefan TL;DR: I dunno if it runs better or not because the game only wants to output fake frames, making it a moot comparison to most other games.

@quad Its sad I used to be a big fan of MH. I mostly dropped due to time constraints and dropping off gaming as a whole. I mean yeah I would not expect a 1070 to fare well today. but a 20-series doing the same is sad. The screenshot from the Deck also looks like you would show me some screenshot from one of the 3DS-Games. I know the case is not super comparable but bruh what this? It will need even more heavy patching than world did. Maybe in a year or two it might be decent?

@stefan
>Maybe in a year or two it might be decent?
that assumes the patch it at all. like most AAA games it will probably just get the bare minimum of patching to make it crash less and maybe perform 10% better, then left to rot until new hardware can brute-force it.

Personally I'm not a huge MH guy. First time I played any MH was when I poked MH:FU way back, but I didn't really get it. So I didn't really touch MH until World go lots of hype so I thought I'd check it out. I think I have like 25 hours in World but in the end I ended up dropping that as well.

@quad They did things to improve World I am pretty sure. I don't 100% remember. I just remember it being messy as well on the start. But they also used an older engine for world and switched to RE-Engine for Rise. I hope they used that one lol. Its basically the same engine that also powers the Resident Evil Remakes.

what you describe could be the case as well though ngl ^^"

Dunno how one can drop the ball so hard though....

@stefan I haven't really looked a ton into Wilds myself, just seen how awfully it runs for my friends and colleagues.

Although pretty sure Wilds does use RE-Engine.

@quad I only know from my brother with his 3060 it crashed.... a lot

@stefan I have a 7900 XTX, so I could probably brute-force my way through performance issues. But I'm still not giving any money to someone who releases a game that's this broken.

@quad @stefan I have the same card and I have to play the game on lowest settings with a gimped Hz on my gpu to not make it crash mesa every 30 minutes... I only still play because im basically a fanboy

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@quad @stefan it worked in the 30-40fps range on my steam deck with frame gen on but yeah, it was pixel soup.

@quad makes sense to me. Not like you have to play it anyway. So many other actually good running games out there.

@teto @stefan I haven't played the game, but I noticed that when I ran the benchmark for any extended time it would likely just completely freeze. Didn't seem to be mesa though, as Steam could still open ontop via gamescope.

@quad @stefan for me the entire desktop session freezes, then my monitors turn off, then turn on again, with nothing interactable anymore and music playing in the background. Tty sessions dont even work anymore and I have to do a hardreset.

@teto @stefan This happens to me when running on a KDE desktop. When running in gamescope on ChimeraOS, only the game freezes. Probably doesn't entirely crash mesa, it does probably do some really jank stuff to mess up rendering so bad it makes most desktops commit seppuku as collateral though

@quad @stefan gamescope is a good idea. Didnt anyone on protondb suggest it yet...

@stefan @quad wow intel arc user in the wild

@teto @stefan well i don't know if it helps with anything, it basically just makes a virtual display for the game if you want to control resolution and scaling yourself.

it's just that on SteamOS (and clones like ChimeraOS or Bazzite) all games run in gamescope. It's how the full-screen gaming mode works and how they render the OS interface above whatever you're running, it runs gamescope with the UI in one container and the game in another, and then it keeps adding more for additional windows. But it means that every window is kinda running in its own mini wayland compositor, and then gamescope integrates with steam and can switch between which one it's displaying.

I often use it on my workstation as well. Because I have an Odyssey G9 (5120x1440) but no way in hell is my workstation's RX 6600 powering that. So I'll typically use gamescope so I can run a game at a resolution like 2560x1080, and then gamescope will scale that up to fill my display.

@mischievoustomato @stefan this isn't the wild, the fediverse is full of hypernerds

@quad @stefan I'm kind of a hypernerd/intel fan
only use laptops though

@quad @stefan Capcuck DRM is once again killing performance, though I'm hearing they were nice enough to leave symbol names in the exec.

@mischievoustomato @stefan @quad NGL would like to switch from my RX5700XT to a B580 just to see how it is on Linuc

@mischievoustomato @stefan I probably would've bought an Arc GPU for the HTPC in my bedroom, but I already had an extra RX 6600 lying around. I am very tempted to test one, but I have no need to buy a new GPU atm.

@tadano @stefan @mischievoustomato I recently bought a 7900 XTX (Because we found out the 9000 series would have no high-end card). Unfortunately Intel doesn't do high-end.

Both my workstation and bedroom HTPC currently have RX 6600 cards in them, I will probably get an Intel card for one of them the next time I buy one, assuming Intel is still surviving in the GPU market by then.

@quad @tadano @mischievoustomato looking at the reviews for the 9070XT... You basically have that card minus RT on hand

@quad @stefan @mischievoustomato
>assuming Intel is still surviving in the GPU market by then
I heard the Battlemage cards sold well, and given how hard their CPU division is shitting the bed at the moment along with the complete absence of competition in the mid-low end GPU market I think we'll continue to see Intel's presence there. God willing they're smart enough to offer competitive alternatives to CUDA + software taking advantage of it in the next few years as the hard reliance most AI/general GPU compute software has on it is hard carrying Nvidia.

@stefan @tadano @mischievoustomato I don't mind much, I scoured for prices and got the 7900 XTX for the equivalent of about $800 once the price is converted and VAT removed for comparison with US pricing.

I "only" paid $200 extra for a ballin' ass XFX card and I've got my 8GB of extra VRAM if I ever need it, I think the XTX still performs a bit better in most situations too. I just got home from work though so I haven't checked all the benchmarks myself yet, only what I've read second hand on fedi.

I won't reiterate the entire rant, but the problem is that Norway's market sucks. The 7900 XTX is now $1000+ again most places. I had to gamble on whether the "9070 XT > 7900 XTX" or "9070 XT < 7900 XTX" back in January. Because the way Norway's market works, once a new gen releases old stock is usually already cleared and leftover stock has stupid pricing. So by the time the 9070 XT releases it's too late to decide if I should buy a 9070 XT or 7900 XTX.

@tadano @stefan @mischievoustomato I sure hope so.

Also I wonder if the AI bubble is going to pop soon. Even if that bubble pops Intel will need good GPU compute though. If they want to survive on the consumer market only they will need insane sales volume, which evidently isn't happening because most gamers buy their GPU simply by asking "what is the most expensive nvidia card i can afford"

@quad @tadano @mischievoustomato I remember that rant no worries. I was baffled by something else today. The gap between the cheapest 4060 and the cheapest 4070 is like 300€. Rip lol

@stefan @tadano @mischievoustomato Nvidia's GPU pricing is a catastrophe. I am actually impressed that it somehow seemingly got even worse after the 50 series. They also keep refusing to sell any decent amount of VRAM because they don't want to cannibalize their DC sales.

Also for anyone else ITT who wants a wall of text with context about why i bought a 7900 XTX, this post contains a summary, not about how much I have Norway's electroincs market though. In case anyone is bored enough: https://akko.quad.moe/notice/Aqcg4ctdAZWKFurUhc

@quad @tadano @mischievoustomato That 4060 has 8GB VRam, a 4060ti can be had with either 8 or 16 ans a 3070 has 8.

Its so sad the 5070 sure is a poster child that more Vram is needed by now in some Games.

Also not only nvidias pricing a catastrophe AMDs is as well.

@tadano @stefan @quad i wish i had a laptop with intel arc (dedicated) gfx to say how it is, but well, they're rare and it's worse over here.

But my experience with my intel igpu has been pretty great

@quad @stefan makes sense. I would want to get a smol thingy for a server machine, integrated intel gfx are enough, would need a dedicated intel gpu if there were serious media stuff or for ai things

@quad @stefan @tadano i hope intel doesn't give up

@tadano @stefan @quad fwiw, i run ai on my laptop using the igpu thanks to intel's ipex-llm custom stuff, and I've heard there's some weird things going on with amd's rocm

@quad @stefan @tadano that sounds very weird

@mischievoustomato @stefan @quad @tadano
Intel cards are pretty bad for data collection BTW

@mischievoustomato I just want them to actualize the claims they make about ultra high efficiency x86 which will compete with ARM for battery life v. performance specs. I've yet to see real-world examples of Lunar Lake out in the wild but their claims therein, and promises for subsequent generation Lunar Lake successors, are super enticing. @stefan @quad @tadano

@mischievoustomato @stefan @tadano what sounds weird? the market? yes.

it's because norway has a severe monopoly problem. for any given tech product there's usually only a single importer/distributor. so when this importer hears about the next-gen product arriving (which they will of course know way earlier than consumers), the importer typically tries to clear their warehouse of the current gen stuff immediately. so all across the country, in every store, the same product tends to be on sale for like a month straight.

due to this the entire country of norway tends to run out of most tech products at the same time. meaning that when the next-gen product arrives, there's a minimal amount of last-gen product left in the country because no matter which of the 15 stores you go to, they all use the same distributor behind the scene, and all the stores and the distributor cleared their shelves prior to the new product's arrival.

If you do find last-gen products after this happens, it's typically only from some stores which actually ships internationally and handles their own import paperwork. For example proshop.no actually ships from denmark most of the time and does their own importing. However even those stores will typically crank their prices once or right after all the other stores do so their norwegian store has worse prices/selection than other countries (because why wouldn't they? more profits) so in practice all of Norway still tends to run out of a product generation all at once.

@mischievoustomato @stefan @tadano TL;DR: most stuff is imported by a single company, who clears their warehouse ahead of time and stores do sales at the same price which align with this. hence the entire product generation tends to despawn across the whole country at about the same time (prior to the release of the next gen)

@yomiel @stefan @quad @tadano good thing I don't give a shit + don't use windows (even if i did, see the first statement)

@quad @stefan Holy aliasing and noise

@mikuphile @stefan guaranteed to contain at least 15% real organic pixels

@quad @stefan @tadano we need to put gamers in intel sponsored gaming camps where they can learn more than 1 gpu vendor eixsts

@stefan @quad @tadano tfw my integrated gpu can use 12GB of ram as vram

@adiz @stefan @quad @tadano it's gonna take some serious work to make x86 that efficient, but it'd be fucking great to see. As it stands right now, i prefer x86 still

@mischievoustomato @stefan @tadano meanwhile i have done the opposite in the past and used some of the vram on my rx 580 as swap https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Swap_on_video_RAM

@quad @stefan @tadano jfc. that's very shitty.

@quad @stefan @tadano that's crazy yes, cool thtat it can be done, I cheat by using zram, 24gb of ram, 48gb of zram. Smooth ngl

@mikuphile @stefan @quad it's very fucking bad. I play at a weird resolution (1536x960) with fsr on wuwa and it doesn't look this bad

@mischievoustomato @stefan @tadano i used to abuse zram heavily when i daily'd a thinkpad with 4GB of ram. but these days all my computers have way too much ram. i still set up a bit of zram out of habit, but kinda not sure why i still bother

@quad @stefan @tadano it's good to have just in case, oom is unpleasant.

@mischievoustomato @stefan @mikuphile the steam deck's screen is 1280x800. to hit 30fps (usually not even stable) you have to enable ultra performance fsr. which essentially means the game is rendering at 426x266 and then AI tries to upscale that to 1280x800.

Alternatively you can use less extreme upscaling and enable frame generation (basically in-game motion interpolation, the same shitty smoothing smart TVs do) to stretch the game from 20-ish to 30-40. But then the image is going to be full of all kinds of different visual bugs instead because frame gen really only works if you give it at least 45-ish fps as input.

@quad @stefan @mikuphile > the steam deck's screen is 1280x800. to hit 30fps (usually not even stable) you have to enable ultra performance fsr. which essentially means the game is rendering at 426x266 and then AI tries to upscale that to 1280x800.

OH MY FUCKING GOD 3DS LEVEL RENDERING

> Alternatively you can use less extreme upscaling and enable frame generation (basically in-game motion interpolation, the same shitty smoothing smart TVs do) to stretch the game from 20-ish to 30-40. But then the image is going to be full of all kinds of different visual bugs instead because frame gen really only works if you give it at least 45-ish fps as input.

doesn't this also mess with input?

@mischievoustomato @stefan @quad @mikuphile wow AI is so good and advanced that it can make games look like minecraft and still get shit fps. amazing

@mischievoustomato @stefan @mikuphile
>doesn't this also mess with input?
yes, the image will look like it's 30fps but you will have input latency around what it'd be at 15fps

@quad @stefan @mikuphile i beat nfs the run at 15fps and god damn that is atrocious

@quad @mikuphile @stefan honestly I'm glad that I'm limited by what my igpu can play, and that I only care about a small set of games, because otherwise shit's too messed up

@david @stefan @mikuphile @mischievoustomato i just want my games to not look blurry as shit, but even without machine learning upscalers, forced and awfully configured TAA does that anyways.

god bless Kingdom Come Deliverance II for still having an option to switch from temporal SMAA 1TX/2TX to regular SMAA 1X. Too bad their game also seems to have the least temporal ghosting I've seen in a while, therefore it's also one of the games where this option is least necessary

@quad @stefan @david @mikuphile > TAA
what astounds me is that TAA is somehow worse than FXAA, slower than it, BLURRIER and gets used over fxaa and forced. What the fuck

@mischievoustomato @stefan @david @mikuphile I like how everyone used to shit on FXAA because it just blurred everything too much. But now TAA does the same and most people seem to not notice. Consumers these days (especially gamers) really do just consume whatever slop they're fed.

I know multiple people who KNEW monster hunter wilds ran like ass because of the benchmark, then they have no self-control and pay the full $70 for it on release day, and then proceed to complain about how bad it runs

i mean buddy, you got it backwards, you were supposed to complain first and then refuse to give them your $70. when you've already given them $70 it's too late to complain

@quad @stefan @david @mikuphile > I like how everyone used to shit on FXAA because it just blurred everything too much. But now TAA does the same and most people seem to not notice. Consumers these days (especially gamers) really do just consume whatever slop they're fed.

I'm literally missing one eye and I do notice it lmfao but yeah, i'm far from the avg gamer...

> I know multiple people who KNEW monster hunter wilds ran like ass because of the benchmark, then they have no self-control and pay the full $70 for it on release day, and then proceed to complain about how bad it runs

see picrel. People really have no spine these days

@mischievoustomato @stefan @quad It looks worse than a gamecube game while also performing so much worse than if they had just used techniques from that era. Computers are so fake and gay these days.

@mikuphile @stefan @quad
> Computers are so fake and gay these days:mito_tired:.

it's less this and more so that... game devs use fucking UE5 and make their shit run like ass

@mischievoustomato @stefan @david @mikuphile
>I'm literally missing one eye and I do notice it
My right eye suffered retinal detachment in 2014 and is so nearsighted that it's borderline useless, so i'm nearly in the same boat

@quad @stefan @david @mikuphile jesus christ, ouchie

@mischievoustomato @quad @stefan Well, not computers themselves, but programmers.

@mikuphile @stefan @mischievoustomato honestly god bless the nintendo switch. it's the only lowest common denominator left preventing all games from being garbage. games developed with the switch in mind like rain code, harvestella or shin megami tensei v typically still look plenty good using "legacy" techniques.

i hope the switch 2 isn't too powerful, if it is the few games which are still somewhat optimized will probably all disappear

@quad @stefan @mikuphile limitations breed innovation

@mischievoustomato @stefan @david @mikuphile it doesn't actually hurt at all. your vision just goes black, then they do surgery to stick it back on but it never fully heals, so the vision remains really blurry/nearsighted and a little bit distorted.

@quad @stefan @mischievoustomato Switch has subhuman‐tier latency though. Also it's soulless.

@quad @stefan @david @mikuphile alright, ok, but it still sounds not bueno

@mischievoustomato @stefan @david @mikuphile well yeah, it fucks vision in one eye, it's not bueno

@mischievoustomato Will probably take serious work, but Intel is making serious claims. @stefan @quad @tadano

@adiz @stefan @quad @tadano yuh